From Boring to Buzzworthy: How Propane Marketing Can Turn Stories Into Industry Success

Steve Gasser (00:04.632)
Hello, welcome to the Remarkable Podcast. We are doing a special series leading up to the NPGA Expo in Nashville, talking with people who are shaping how propane companies run and grow. And as we’ve been having these conversations, one thing keeps coming up. A lot of companies, they’re working hard, but they’re struggling because pressure inside the business keeps building. And the companies that handle that the best? Well, they have systems and structure to stay ahead of it.

And that’s why I’m excited to be talking to Freddie Ridler from Rural Computer Consultants today. Freddie, good to have you here.

Freddie Ridler (00:41.208)
Hello, hello, hello everybody. This is the first time on camera, so I don’t know how to act. I’m hoping I’m doing alright. Good to see you, Steve.

Steve Gasser (00:44.385)
you

Steve Gasser (00:51.011)
It’s always good to talk to you. We did a podcast several months ago together.

Freddie Ridler (00:53.848)
We did. We did. Yes, we did. And I do the podcast for Women in Propane through a leadership lens. Gonna plug that real quick right behind me. If you’re not a subscriber, check it out.

Steve Gasser (01:02.398)
Awesome. Freddie, so for those of you that aren’t familiar, those people that aren’t familiar with you and Rural Computer Consultants, tell us a little bit about what you focus on with propane companies.

Freddie Ridler (01:12.794)
Sure

Freddie Ridler (01:16.642)
Awesome, awesome, I love to. So I’m Freddie Riddler, like Steve said. I’m the head of business growth at Rural Computer Consultants, celebrating my 21st year at Rural this month, which is super awesome. My role, Steve, is, I’ve worn a lot of hats. I’ve started off in support and I’ve done project management and converts and I was one of the, not the developers, but the team leads in our handheld department and

Steve Gasser (01:26.69)
Yeah.

Freddie Ridler (01:44.858)
got into sales and did some marketing. Now we have a great team called Vivid Image who do all of our marketing. If you haven’t heard of them, check them out. But my role now is to kind of get out in the industry and see what’s going on. I know a couple owners here at RCC said your role is to take your finger and put it on the pulse and kind of see what the beat’s like. And it has opened my eyes a lot within the propane industry.

Steve Gasser (02:03.182)
Yeah.

Freddie Ridler (02:10.03)
My first 15 years working at RCC, I was inside these walls. I lived and breathed software. And the minute I was exposed to the propane industry, going to board of director meetings, benchmark council meetings, state association, trade shows, I really got to see the big picture of the propane industry. When I say big picture, it’s big. Even though it feels small and it’s a very family industry, it’s a big picture. And it was a lot of fun.

It’s a great experience to get out there and kind of see what’s all going on. And if there’s something we can do with software, we do it.

Steve Gasser (02:48.024)
So as you head into the expo, what has you excited heading over to Nashville this year?

Freddie Ridler (02:53.208)
Well, Brian Sheehan, founder, the big cheese, the man of rural computer consultants who started this amazing company in the late 70s. He is being inducted into the LP Gas Hall of Fame. Such an incredible honor to have someone like that, a mentor of mine, a mentor of many here at RCC.

Steve Gasser (03:12.024)
That’s amazing.

Freddie Ridler (03:19.226)
start off this company with him and his brother and his sister, another programmer, and it kept growing, kept growing, kept growing. And today we have over 75 staff and to think his idea is going off to school and thinking, what can I do to create this software to help my father’s business, Sheehan’s Gas, and then one day going, Jeepers, I wonder if I could sell this. And we fast forward, here we are today celebrating his giant achievement.

And so that’s the biggest thing leading up to the expo. The LP Gas Hall of Fame, they do a really good job kind of highlighting four of the industry brilliant minded people. I don’t know how else to word that, but every year they grab about four people and they induct them into the LP Gas Hall of Fame. And this year, Brian Sheehan was one of them and we’re really excited to be part of it.

Steve Gasser (04:11.106)
That’s amazing. Yeah, and that’s Saturday, Saturday night.

Freddie Ridler (04:15.802)
Saturday night. Yep, Saturday night at the LP gas Hall of Fame. Yep, and Not to mention a couple other things are really excited about the expo this year is the Again, sorry. I gotta do it again women propane’s through the leadership lens podcast This is our third year doing a live podcast this year We have a little bit of a change-up instead of Bridget kid who used to be my other co-host She stepped down and Jess Balderston

who is Brian Sheehan’s daughter, awesome. She is the new co-host of our podcast. So her and I are doing a live podcast this year. And what’s crazy, last year she was a guest, now she’s a host. So we’re really excited about doing that again on Sunday. And Jess and I are gonna be doing a live podcast on the trade floor. So if you see us walking around with some equipment, watch out, because you may be the next one on our podcast.

Steve Gasser (04:51.458)
Great.

Freddie Ridler (05:13.078)
I’m on a panel this year called From Boring to Buzzworthy. So that’s gonna be exciting talking about how marketing has just been so much fun to boost stories because one thing about the propane industry, it’s all about storytelling. And when you have a brand that can tell a story, it’s so much fun to talk about. So we got a lot going on. There’s a lot just this year is just jam packed of education sessions.

Hall of Fame dinners, live podcasts, keynote speakers. It’s going to be an incredible event.

Steve Gasser (05:49.204)
You bring so much energy to everything you do.

Freddie Ridler (05:51.094)
I got goosebumps from just saying all that.

Steve Gasser (05:53.327)
Yeah. You know, so I think last time we talked, we talked about the stories around making propane sexy. And yeah, that right there. Yeah. So you’re working with propane companies every day. What are some of the biggest operational patterns or challenges you see that they have?

Freddie Ridler (06:01.476)
You mean that, right? Yes.

Freddie Ridler (06:14.862)
Yeah, this was really good conversation and it’s so fresh on my mind, Steve, because Jess and I just got back from Long Beach, California and we went to the NPGA benchmarking council meeting and Jess and I did a presentation on change, change in leadership, change in mentorship, strengthening mentorship, continuing that, educating your leadership throughout your organization.

And it was very well received. And I think looking now in the industry, you can sense a innovation, right? You can sense like the change is coming. And I’m not saying that because I’m getting older and everyone else seems like they’re getting younger, but the younger generation are walking to that table and saying, I wanna be at this table. I wanna contribute in these decisions.

And I think by doing that, I think that change is coming where a lot of propane companies, they have to recognize that. And not just a younger generation, right? There’s some tenured employees too that you gotta bring to that table, bring them into some decision making that you might not have had in the past. And I think with new ownership taking over first gen, second gen, third gen, right? Or maybe it’s just a transition of different leadership teams.

being open-minded and listening to your staff because when it comes down to it, they’re the ones that know how things are going, right? They’re really deep in the procedures and as a software company, whenever we talk to a company about our product, we don’t just say, here’s something you need to use to make you more efficient, right? The conversation needs to be had of who are the employees that are helping make this decision to switch to software?

I don’t wanna just say here you go, it’s gonna make your life better because the employees still have to use it. So that’s what I mean, like if change doesn’t just come with leadership or ownership, it also can come with procedures and one of them, again, being in the software business, when that happens, we have to talk to people, we have to get right down boots in the ground and say, why are you even looking to switch? What are your pain points? What can we do about it?

Freddie Ridler (08:32.142)
So I think in the industry right now, when I look and you said, what are you seeing in the industry right now? I think they’re starting to allow more people to come to that table. feel like the tables are getting bigger and it’s filling up full of more valuable employees. They should be anyways.

Steve Gasser (08:51.768)
Yeah, I love that. Everyone has an opinion. Everyone looks at problems differently. So when pressure starts to build up inside these companies, where does that tend to show up first?

Freddie Ridler (08:57.262)
Yep, for sure.

Freddie Ridler (09:07.446)
I think emotions, right? I feel like when pressure starts to build up at a propane car or any company, the emotions start to come up. That’s when you first start to see it. just, nobody likes what they’re doing. You can always tell when an employee is down because normally if they love their job, they bring that energy in, they’re ready to go.

Steve Gasser (09:10.2)
Hmm.

Steve Gasser (09:22.53)
Yeah.

Freddie Ridler (09:32.321)
If there’s a lot of stress that’s happening, the first thing you need to do is just be mindful of your surroundings. that’s all, sometimes it just takes, man, I noticed that you’re kind of down today. What’s going on? Is there something we can do to help out? Yeah, I think that’s where you first see it, is that. And then it’s just education, right? Let’s say that you’re building extra pressure or stress at operations or a propane company.

Go find out if there’s some type of technology that can help out. And I don’t know if I’m answering your question with this one, but I’m gonna go down this path anyways. Because I feel like people sometimes put blinders on with technology. know, AI isn’t replacing people’s jobs, right? It’s making you get back the time you lost by doing a certain process. Okay, great, we all hear it, but who’s doing it? Like, it just, I don’t know how to get more people to reach out and look for this type of technology. And you really shouldn’t have

pressure or stress when there’s just so much of it out there. If you’re using something already and it’s not working out, just call up that person that supplies you this service and see if there’s a better way of operating. Is there more technology you can be using? You know, one of the things that when I was at the benchmarking council meeting, they said with this one individual said, what we did as a company, as we said, we started listening more than talking. And I’m like,

To me, you had to practice that, like isn’t that common sense? But then when I went home, like I need to write that down because I tend to talk more than I listen. And I’ve been practicing that for a week and a half now and it’s amazing if you just say, tell me more or give me more information or tell me why you feel this way. How much more can crawl out of that conversation?

Steve Gasser (11:28.354)
Yeah. Yeah, so repeat that line one more time. What do we need to spend more time doing? You said a lot. We need to listen more than we talk, right? Yeah.

Freddie Ridler (11:32.046)
Which one? I said a whole lot of them. We need to listen more than we talk. Yep. And that’s just a reminder for everybody.

Steve Gasser (11:41.912)
Love that. So let’s start talking about the expo. What should people be paying attention to at the expo this year?

Freddie Ridler (11:49.103)
the vibe, right? It’s back in Nashville. I mean, come on, you got the woohoo people again, right? On Broadway, everyone always says, what’s up with the woohoo? You always say about, or always talk about Freddie. I’m like, go on Broadway, just listen, and you’ll see a bus go by, and you’ll hear people say woohoo. So there you go. When it’s back in Nashville, I feel like it’s got that excitement again. Now, pros and cons, people get lost in Broadway Street, be careful.

Steve Gasser (11:50.896)
Ooh! Yeah.

Freddie Ridler (12:18.162)
She is dangerous. She will suck you in and she won’t bring you back to your your your hotel to like two, three, four in the morning. So be careful. But you could tell like bringing it back to a city like Nashville, the energy is getting bigger and bigger every single day. Every time I go to a board meeting or some other type of benchmarking meeting and they talk about numbers at Expo, right? How many attendees are planning on going?

Steve Gasser (12:21.506)
Yes.

Freddie Ridler (12:45.964)
It keeps growing and growing and growing. And I feel like this is gonna be a record breaking year for the NPGA to host this expo. So yeah, know, Charlotte’s a great city. I love Charlotte. They got really great restaurants there. It’s very laid back, very safe and just a great feeling city. But Nashville, mean, live music, bars, restaurants, it’s just gonna be great.

Steve Gasser (13:08.3)
Yeah.

And this is a big event. There’s a lot of vendors there. There’s a lot of educational opportunities. So what conversation should people have or make sure that they have while they’re there?

Freddie Ridler (13:17.679)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Ridler (13:24.888)
Yeah, mean, my advice is to plan ahead, okay? There’s so much that’s going on, like you said, Steve, education sessions, fast track sessions, panelists, keynote speakers, right? Prayer breakfast, Hall of Fame dinners, I can keep going on, live podcast events. Plan ahead, go to the expo website.

Download the app. I love the app by the way. You can favorite different Education sessions or events and it’ll remind you of you have something coming up. So go download use the technology. It’s right there but Yeah, it’s a it’s a great app when my own when our staff asked me questions about events I might download the app core the app but plan ahead because you don’t want to miss out and another thing I’ll tell you speaking from experience

Steve Gasser (14:06.156)
I don’t think I’ve tried the app yet. I gotta check out the app.

Freddie Ridler (14:22.796)
is when you look at all the different education sessions, don’t just blow them off by the one sentence you may see without clicking into it reading more, because sometimes it’s really hard, like I forget the name of it, I shouldn’t know, from boring to buzz-worthy, I forget the whole something like that, but click into it, read more about it, because I have done this in the past where I scroll through.

Steve Gasser (14:26.243)
Uh-huh.

Steve Gasser (14:40.366)
I think that’s right.

Freddie Ridler (14:48.758)
It doesn’t sound interesting, doesn’t sound interesting and I find out it was one of the biggest attended most education sessions and I missed out on it because I didn’t look into it. Take the time to review it. These aren’t just, hey who wants to talk at an expo raise your hand. There’s a team at the NPGA that reviews all these submissions and they put a lot of work into each education session. So there’s a lot of strategic planning with all these so go check them out.

Nine o’clock in the morning is early for some people. get it, because Broadway might have sucked you in. But get up, go to these meetings. Like I said, you will leave with more knowledge than when you started with. So education sessions, plan ahead. And another message too, engage. And what I mean by that is walk up to people, say hi, who are you? Get to know them. Every person there, I feel like

Steve Gasser (15:20.685)
I’m

Freddie Ridler (15:43.619)
Anytime you go to the expo, they’re super happy. Like no one ever just goes to the expo saying, yeah, I got drug into this again. I didn’t want to be here. Like everyone there you can tell is excited to be there. Go meet people, go say hi, go engage with them. When you walk by booths and you see somebody standing behind the booth, even if it’s something that you’re not really interested at the time, go talk to the individual because we’re all there and not just a sell, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell.

We’re there to share stories. You might be using another software, great. Still come into our booth and talk to us. Talk about why we do making Propane sexy, right? Why we branded this to bring out stories. Get yourself a T-shirt or two. Just go meet people because this is the place to network and networking just only gets you a bigger footprint in the Propane industry.

Steve Gasser (16:38.55)
It’s such a relationship industry.

Freddie Ridler (16:40.577)
Mm-hmm, for sure.

Steve Gasser (16:42.786)
All right, so let’s go and talk about customer expectations. these propane companies, their customer expectations have changed over the years. So what does that mean for how propane companies need to communicate today?

Freddie Ridler (16:56.026)
customer expectations with with who their customers or like with their customers how they communicating with their own customers

Steve Gasser (17:00.575)
They’re customers.

Steve Gasser (17:06.316)
Yeah, how have those expectations changed?

Freddie Ridler (17:09.176)
Yeah, and I think I’m gonna answer this correctly. I feel like, you know,

Back when we didn’t have a lot of technology, you supply the service to the customer, and it doesn’t matter if it’s propane or whatever service it is, you supply the service to the end user and then you invoice them, they pay their bill. Now, there’s a lot more exposure, right? There’s a lot more technology. There’s a lot more propane companies that are coming up and popping up and they’re getting bigger. And I think the thing that

Steve Gasser (17:33.742)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Ridler (17:47.173)
customers like to hear about is your culture of why you do it, right? What makes you what why should I buy my product from you versus somebody else? Might be a price you never know but sometimes that’s just here’s the story behind it. I just talked to a customer today I got a sticker in the mail and I’m like what in the world is a sticker? So I’ll keep it off the podcast for now, but it’s from a propane company.

And they’re not even in the state, they’re in Pennsylvania. And when I started researching this more, I found out that they have a sign outside of their building that they update and it brings people from all over into town just to take a picture of the sign because apparently they do a bunch of like Hank Hill one-liners and we sell propane and propane appliances and accessories and they’re known as like this.

Steve Gasser (18:37.742)
I need accessories.

Freddie Ridler (18:43.542)
Outside of their building they change the words on the sign every single week just to get people to stop and say that’s funny or that’s great or don’t forget to get your don’t leave town without gas like just things like that and You know that that’s the little bit of extra communication. I feel like This this is who I want to purchase my product from I add they’re fun. They’re exciting. They make me laugh. They make me feel like home

Steve Gasser (19:04.696)
Love that.

Freddie Ridler (19:11.034)
I can, they do a lot for the community, right? But then they also have technology because maybe I don’t want a statement in the mail. So they give me an app where I can look at my account or make a request work or review what’s owed or make a payment, right? They’re saying, we understand you’re busy and chaotic life. We don’t want to send you a statement nor do we want, don’t want you to have to get in your vehicle and drive to our office to give us the cash or the check. So here.

For all of you people out there that want to do something easier, we’ll make it easier for you. If you still want to come in the office, great. We’ll still have a pot of coffee for you when you come in. So I think it’s that culture they’re bringing to the town of saying, we’re here for you. We have a great product. We have a clean, reliable, affordable product for you. But we also have more than that. We have a story to share with you when you come in.

Steve Gasser (20:11.672)
So when you think about the best run companies, what are they doing differently when it comes to their systems and communication?

Freddie Ridler (20:18.234)
listening more than talking. You know, I think they’re very transparent with their team. And I think it’s bringing, like I said, more people to those conversations. The success, you can always tell by an organization who is in charge when you talk to their employees. Because I feel like you hire almost

Steve Gasser (20:20.636)
I was expecting that answer.

Freddie Ridler (20:48.57)
like a mirror self or a transparent of your own self. You’re hiring someone that’s almost like you. When I sit down with people and we go through a hiring process, I want to know, could you work with our culture? In fact, actually, I’m going to tell you a story. I won’t say who the propane company was, but they’re a pretty bigger operational team. And they said, we hire people that can work with our culture, work with our team, work with our family.

We can always train them to be the best drivers, service tech, CSRs, managers, telemetry managers, whatever it might be. But can they work with us? And when you hire like that, you can tell because when you walk in, everyone there, the culture is built around that family atmosphere. And then it’s great because they obviously can train them in on these different roles, right?

Steve Gasser (21:31.372)
Yeah.

Freddie Ridler (21:44.015)
But the ones that are really doing this well, they’re hiring people like them. And I think that that’s so important. getting their feedback when it comes to change is a big one. I see a lot of them just drop in, hey, we’re changing this up. And then you get people that are frustrated and going, my goodness, when did this start? When was this conversation? Is this replacing someone’s job? Why did we make this change? Am I not doing my change right? You get all these emotional factors that come

piling in and I feel like you could have just weeks ago, months ago said, hey, Freddie, we’re looking at changing this out to this. We would love your feedback in it or on it. And now, like I said, you just brought in that conversation. They feel like they’re included. So a lot of communication, a lot of companies that communicate internally, I think just do things better.

Steve Gasser (22:37.376)
I love it. So let’s get back to the expo. So for somebody coming to the expo, what would make it worth their time to stop by and connect with you and the RCC team?

Freddie Ridler (22:48.452)
So there’s two things you should stop by and talk to us about. One, come over, tell us about your company, share that story. Ask me why making propane sexy was birthed, right? Why we came up with that branding. And I’m gonna tell you the reason for it is this right here. When we’re done talking for the five, 10, 15, 20 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever it is.

Steve Gasser (23:06.862)
That’s a great story.

Freddie Ridler (23:16.792)
and you walk away, I was like, that’s what making propane sexy is all about. It’s sharing a story. I got to know you because you asked me, what does that logo mean? How simple of a conversation icebreaker is that? The second reason is, you know, people come to Expo because it’s a place where all the vendors get together. We have a lot of great exhibitors this year, a lot of them. The thing is jam-packed full. Vivid’s gonna be there this year, which is super awesome. I’m so excited.

Steve Gasser (23:44.408)
Yes.

Freddie Ridler (23:46.212)
We’re collaborating with Vivid, so if you’re watching this and know that we’re doing something out of the box, wink wink, might be giving away some t-shirts, we’ll see, but check us out maybe, but you get to learn about our services, our product. Don’t look at our banners and think you know what we do. Don’t look at our booth and think, come and talk to us. We would love to show you and talk to you what it’d be like to be a family member of rural computer consultants, how we can

Bring in efficiencies, bring in technology, bring in these tough conversations about AI or KPIs, right? Bring those hard questions to us. We value those conversations starting points. We wanna hear what are your pain points? What takes you the longest every single day? What is your biggest downfall you experience right now? What takes the most time at your office right now? We wanna hear about that.

And then at that time we could tell you here’s what we have to offer. So when you come by our booth, learn about how you could become more efficient with our software and technology.

Steve Gasser (24:52.758)
Love it. So final question.

Freddie Ridler (24:53.828)
Try not to plug it too much, but you really should stop by our booth and hear about our system. It’s pretty awesome.

Steve Gasser (25:00.231)
You really should. So from everything you’re seeing, what makes a propane company easy to do business with today?

Freddie Ridler (25:08.3)
What makes a propane company easy to do business with today? boy, that’s a great question. I’m gonna say that from the first time Tom and I talked to a customer, from just getting to know who they are and learning more about who they are based on those preliminary questions or conversations we have,

you could tell the ones that I’m scared for change. I’m calling you guys to talk about your software, but I’m scared, right? And Tom and I, approach this as, let’s put the scare aside quick. Tell me more about your company. Where are you located? Do you guys use like degree days or remote sensors or auto payments? Do you guys have daily reporting? Tell me more about why you’re calling me right now because we’re gonna get to the scary thing soon.

because changing software is scary. But let’s not focus on that. Let’s not focus on the what ifs. Let’s just talk right now today. What’s going on today that we can help you out with. And I feel like the feedback we’re getting is much easier and relaxed when we go about that way. And next thing you know, we start having two or three or four of these calls or demos and we’re slowly getting the trust. And that’s

That’s where it gets really easy with companies these days. I feel like a lot more of them are reaching out to say, I need to learn about you before I trust you, right? That’s just like anything else. I want to learn more about you before I trust in you. My company, my company that I’ve been taking over from my dad or my grandpa 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 years ago, the software is a really big part of that. You know what I mean? Like you’re using our software to run your business.

when I think the great thing about the storytelling side of it is they feel more relaxed and they can also say like those really like things they normally won’t say anybody else like yeah, we need to clean this up or clean that up or we need to speed this process up. They’re giving us the juicy details now. They let us into their dark side of like here’s really what we’re struggling with, which you wouldn’t hear about if you just said, hey, I need some software, great.

Freddie Ridler (27:31.749)
Here’s a presentation we’ll give to you. Here’s a demo. Let me know if you have any questions. See you later. So the reason why it’s getting easier is I feel like more more companies are getting to that point where they see the value in software. So they want more of you, of the company, because we’re not just, you can’t just buy our system off the shelf and install it and say you’re good to go, right? It doesn’t work that way. It’s gonna require our staff to work with your staff and we,

from day one until they’re alive and 10 years down the road, we’re still treating them just like day one.

Steve Gasser (28:07.083)
I love it. know, Freddie, I really believe leaders define culture. And I think, you know, the culture that you have at RCC, I you’re really helping, helping define the culture that’s in the industry too. And it’s so, so refreshing to see your face at the board meetings, at these expos. Really excited for what you’re bringing to the industry. And I hope everyone takes some time to connect with you there. So,

Freddie Ridler (28:22.842)
Mm-hmm.

Freddie Ridler (28:34.01)
Mm-hmm.

Steve Gasser (28:36.149)
If you’re heading to the Expo in Nashville, don’t just walk the floor. You know, have a plan. And if you want help thinking through where you are and where to focus next, come find RCC or Vivid and we’ll help you with that process.

Freddie Ridler (28:51.514)
I would be honored if you saw this and said, we got a personal invitation to come to your booth from Steve and Freddie’s podcast to say, we need some help with this or with that. Where should I go? What should I do? Who should I meet? Okay, I’m gonna, one more thing, expo, right? There are a lot of great mentors out there. If you are new to the industry,

Steve Gasser (29:04.267)
Yes.

Freddie Ridler (29:20.122)
please find a mentor. I have talked to so many leaders in the industry and they never got there alone. It’s okay to ask for help. There’s so many brilliant mentors in this industry that love to help other people. That’s all they do. I have my personal mentors in this industry. I would not be here right now if I did not reach out and say I need some help. So if you are looking

Steve Gasser (29:28.407)
Yes.

Freddie Ridler (29:46.232)
If you’re watching this and you’re new to the industry or you’re an owner right now watching this and you have some really great staff that needs some great mentors, let me know. There’s a really great program out there called the Knowledge Exchange. I would love to talk to more about that.

Steve Gasser (30:03.085)
I love it. Freddie, you shared so much information. I know I want to keep these down to, you know, around 15 minutes. But thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Look forward to connecting with you in Nashville and to everybody listening. Please make sure to stop by Rural Computer Consultants booth, booth number 723. Have a remarkable afternoon.

Freddie Ridler (30:04.024)
I gotta stop plugging things.

Freddie Ridler (30:14.084)
Yes

Freddie Ridler (30:25.07)
Thank you, Steve, so much.