SPECIAL: Leadership, Culture & The Future of Work — Steve Gasser’s Interview on The Leaders List

Title: “Building a Resilient Company Culture with Steve Gasser of Vivid Image, Inc.” URL: “https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSIVkrDIzqM” Transcript: “(00:00) Everything is happening through these screens. How are we getting the most out of that person? I want to see this thing grow long term. Amazing story. You have such a unique perspective on that. Schedule a two week vacation. I applaud those models. Undervalued. Secure your digital footprint as well. (00:18) Why were they even put in place in the first place? Only the most adaptable survive. Let’s get to the leaders list. We say it all the time. Culture is not what’s written on the wall. It’s how your team shows up when everything’s on the line. And if you get it right, it’ll save you in the bad times and it’ll help you blow past your competitors in the good times. (00:37) So that’s why building a resilient culture belongs on the leaders list. It’s also why I invited Steve Gasser. He’s the CEO of Vivid Image and he’s had an agency for over 30 years and he’s helped small to medium-sized businesses grow through personalized marketing strategies, but their secret strategy is building relationships that actually move the needle. (01:06) So, we’re not going to be talking a lot about ping pong tables or, you know, cool posters. Uh, this one’s about how responsiveness, loyalty, authenticity drive real performance. I’m Brian Morrison. Let’s get to the leaders list. Steve Gasser, thank you so much for joining us on the Leaders List. We’re thrilled to have you. Brian, it is great to be here. (01:30) Yeah, it you I know you have your own show, so this is fantastic for you to come on ours. I appreciate that. I know you don’t do it very often. So, um, we we have been super excited about having you on because as the founder and CEO of Vivid, you have had a great agency for I think it’s 30 years, right? Be 30 years in November. So, in one more month, it’ll be 30 30 years. That’s amazing. Yeah. (02:00) So, congratulations alone, right? I mean, that that deserves a stop and congratulations. But, uh, I’d love for you to tell everybody a little bit about Vivid, your journey, help us understand a little bit about that because we always love to hear from pros that are actually in the trenches that are doing the work. (02:17) Uh, so that we know that the feedback we’re getting is going to be relevant for our businesses. Yeah. So, my company, Vivid Image, we’re 30 years old. We started back in 1995, you know, so before Google, before Amazon, before all the the the names we know, we’re around. Uh we primarily work with successful family-owned businesses. I say successful because they know who they are. (02:44) They’ve been around the block, um but they’re just overwhelmed. They’re looking for a partner that they can work with that can help actually alleviate a lot of the stress that’s um that that’s on the table for them right now. (03:04) Um, you know, a lot of the business owners we meet with, they went they went to work expecting to do one thing, and you probably meet a lot of business owners, too. You go to work, and the example I like to use is, you know, if you’re starting a business baking scon, and you get really good at baking scones, but you want to you want to build a business, the next person you hire is another baker. and you want to keep in increasing your production, you hire another baker. (03:26) Pretty soon you are you’re doing HR, you’re doing sales, you’re doing marketing, you’re doing all the Quickbooks, the accounting, you’re doing everything, all the stuff that you don’t love doing when what you love doing was, you know, baking scones. Yeah. And I share that because I think a lot of the the successful business owners we’re working with, they’ve worked themselves out of what they love doing. (03:45) And our job is to help them rediscover what they love doing and take a lot of the marketing, especially the digital marketing off their plate. Yeah. And so how do you do that when you work with these companies? Are they typically like give us an idea of the ideal size client? I know it’s, you know, typically family run, familyowned, but are they are they small mom and pops or are they uh dealing with growth stage issues for, you know, higher employee count? What’s what’s typically the ideal client? They’re probably more in that growth stage. Um, we do focus on rural (04:20) communities, which I think makes us unique. I love working with rural businesses, but there’s just gems in rural, especially rural Minnesota. Um, our ideal client, they’re probably in that 1 to40 million. They’ve probably reached about 12 employees. And I think at those levels, um, you’ve been successful, but there there’s a growth stage that happens there. Yeah. (04:45) Yeah. And they need to look at ad partners to help take them to the next level. Yeah. And marketing becomes incredibly different at that stage, right? I mean, so they’ve already run out their network and they’ve probably already uh served everybody in a small regional area. (05:03) And so you have to start thinking differently about just how you do business, right? Yep. Now, one of the things we talk about is we want to make them the obvious choice, especially in a rural community. If people are searching for, you know, a dentist, we want to make sure that our client is the obvious choice. Yeah. Yeah, that’s perfect. So, okay. So, sales and marketing, typically digital marketing though, right? Platforms, putting those systems in place. (05:29) Uh that’s pretty amazing when you think about the shift that’s taken place, like you said, over 30 years, you know, the tools didn’t exist, right? Uh, so, so do you find that most companies have already started to put some of those things in place or do they typically come at you with um, hey, look, something’s just wrong, you know, and I I’m I got to start I think it’s a good good variety of where they’re at. Some of them have things in place um, and they’re just it’s just not working. (06:00) Yeah. You know, most everybody that comes to us, they’ve tried digital marketing. They probably worked with another agency in the past and they’ve been burned. Yeah. So for us, you know, it’s building a lot of that trust again because I think, you know, in the digital agency space, you know, a lot of times digital agencies will go in and they’ll compete on price because we’re going to get we’re going to get you based on price, but because you win on in on price. A lot of times the agency doesn’t put their best team on it. They don’t do (06:28) their best work, which then the client’s not getting results. And now there’s this level of distrust. Yeah. Yeah. And at that point, everything’s based on price. Well, how much is it going to cost? And if it’s going to cost this much, what results are you promising me? It’s a really tough cycle to get through. Yeah. It’s a classic agency bait and switch, right? Which Oh, yeah. Yeah. A lot of groups do it. (06:55) Well, it’s interesting because, you know, the subject today that we’re going to talk about that I I love your perspective on is a resilient culture. And what I think is really interesting about what you just said is you’re building your resilient culture with a culture related relationship. (07:18) You’re thinking about the client and how do you build a real honest consistent relationship with them. And that’s part of the beauty of working rural markets, right? You probably have people who appreciate that a little bit more. Yep. Yeah, we do. And you know, our ideal clients, if they’re if they’re just numbers focused, it’s all about results. They’re not a good client for us. Yeah. (07:36) My account directors is probably 50% personal and what they reveal on the personal side helps us grow their business. The more we get to know about you, the more we can help you grow. Yeah. So, we we actually spend a lot of time on personality assessments and making sure we’re getting the right people in the right seats. Yeah. I love that. (07:58) So, let’s talk about how do you do that? Like what uh personality or work style assessments do you guys use? Yeah. Uh we use one called Five Voices. Okay. So Five Voices, it’s it’s based off of MyersBriggs. Yeah. And MyersBriggs was really created uh to celebrate our differences, but there’s 16 different personalities. And how does how does one compare to the other? We find five voices. It’s really un you can really understand. And five VO is a tendency lens. (08:24) So it’s not we’re not trying to put you in a in a box. We’re trying to understand or get you to understand your tendencies and what brings you to life, what gives you joy, and what are those things that you’re probably doing that are minimizing your influence. Love it. The uh similar I think is working genius. (08:48) Uh you know, Lencion’s got a focus on something that’s very similar. Yes. Lencian. Yep. Simple engagement, right? And then uh the other one that we use extensively is predictive index. And I I I love that one just because for one thing you get the same kind of information but it’s two questions. So it’s amazing the kind of data that you get back in a very short period of time. (09:15) But that’s that’s a great way of getting to understand someone immediately, right? And the sooner you can do that, the easier it is to pass that information on, the easier it is for me to be able to adapt to an individual. So that makes perfect sense. And do you do that with clients or do you do that internally? Well, it all started internally. Okay. Um, but we do that with clients. I also do workshops with the community. (09:39) I partnered with a few chambers and we offer this as a leadership 2.0 for a lot of chambers. So most chambers, probably every chamber you can think about, they have a leadership program. They’ve been running it for 30 plus years. Leadership 2.0 is kind of that next step is how we how we’ve been positioning it. That’s great. That’s great. Okay. (10:00) So when you Let’s go back to Vivid Image, you guys. Um you’re what what growth stage would you say you guys are in? Growth stage? Um I think we’ve been in this stability stage for quite a while going from growth to stability. This toward the end of this year we are looking at being much more aggressive with our growth. (10:26) Okay. Um which is bringing a lot of challenges because we need to look at rethinking our processes and how we’ve been doing things. Right. Um you know best thing for me I’ve been able to step out of almost all the roles as as an agency owner. Um, the last role I stepped out of was a sales role and it’s been about eight months I’ve been out of that role and it feels wonderful. That’s good. (10:51) So, you you feel good about stepping out of the role? I feel good. My my responsibility now is looking at the vision. Where are we going? Uh, making sure there’s enough money in the checkbook and ensuring that we’re holding on to the best people. Yeah. So, so what is inspiring this um this growth mindset versus you know you’ve had a number of years of building stability. Why why is that changing now? I there’s a couple reasons. (11:24) First from the client perspective I think these the businesses in rural communities they deserve more and I really believe they deserve my team. I have just an amazing team and everybody says they have an amazing team. I’ve worked a long time curating this team and I know that they can help grow a company. (11:45) Um the other reason I I want to get more aggressive in our growth is actually for my team to give more back to them. I want them to have everything that that they’ve dreamed of. And it starts with um making sure that work is not the all allconuming piece of their life. We uh there’s a visual tool we use. (12:09) It’s called the five gears and it it teaches my team how to how to be in the right gear at the right time because a lot of times we get burned out because we’re either always on uh with work and we’re never down. So we we talk about the five gears and it’s you know first gear is focus mode where you’re totally focused. I want my team to be focused when they’re when they’re at work. Fourth gear is that that mode where you are there’s a lot of things going on. (12:31) You’re checking emails, you’re doing phone calls, you’re probably doing some strategy work. You’re doing a lot of a lot of things. Third gear is that social mode. It’s where trust is built. It’s lighter conversations but it building that no like and trust. Uh we’re very intentional with Third Gear. Uh we’re we’re a remote company or kind of a hybrid company. Some people are in the office two days a week. Some people don’t come in at all. (12:56) And it’s really easy to build that us versus them mentality. So third gear is that time where we we take the time a couple times a week just talking about life. Uh second gear is that deep conversation. It’s, you know, Brian, how are you really doing? It’s that one-on-one contact. And there’s voices that really they crave that one-on-one contact. (13:20) Think about how often do people actually listen to you. Usually we we listen with the intention of responding and talking about ourselves. You know, second gear is that that deep conversation. And then first gear is recharge. Taking time to recharge your batteries and understanding how you recharge. (13:39) So part of our culture is understanding the fi understanding the five gears uh so that you’re in the right gear at the right time. Um and you don’t go home totally burned out because I think when you’re in when you’re in an agency whether you’re a designer or you’re a strategist you give your life to that and when you go home your family gets gets the leftovers. Yeah. And I think that’s really sad. (14:02) Yeah. I mean that’s that’s almost like an operating system, you know, when you think about like that’s a peoplebased orientation and such a such a great and unfortunately kind of novel in some cases uh mindset. So do you teach everyone that comes in? Talk to me a little bit about so as you’re scaling I mean I know you’re you just recently made new hires you’re continuing to grow you’re going after that next stage. (14:36) Um how are you bringing people into that organization because I would imagine you’ve got some long tenur staff and then you introduce new people like what’s that what’s that process like? This has been interesting. We haven’t had to bring on new people for quite a while. But I do have people that have been with me for 22 years and now I got people that have been with me for two days. So it it has been interesting. (14:59) But what we believe in and we’ve we talk about this a lot internally is culture. Culture within a company is created through the intentional use of language. So we want to be very intentional with our language. You know, one of the tools is the five gears intentional language. Um, another tool that we talk about is um, imitate before you innovate. (15:19) A lot of times when you bring somebody new on board, you’re giving them information and they really want to prove to you that they’re a great hire so they innovate that process. We don’t want them innovating right away. We want them imitating first so they understand how we do things, why we do things before they get over to uh, innovation. (15:43) It’s one of the tools I’ve that I’ve been talking to all of our new team members about is make sure you imitate first. Um, yeah, culture, intentional use of language. We have a visual toolkit of about 60 different visual tools that we introduce all of our new hires to. Interesting. Talk about that toolkit. That’s that’s very cool. Um, yeah. Well, five gears is one. Yeah. (16:09) Um the voices another uh we talked about building trust. So there is a process in how you build trust with a client or how you build trust with a team member. We have a visual tool around that. And so when you’re going through each of these things, you’ve developed like full training. I know you you know facilitate and teach as well. So I mean I know that you know what that process looks like. (16:33) Are you that thoughtful about developing each one of these or is it something that um you speak to and they gain that over time as part of you know becoming uh you know a a vivid image you know long-termer? Do they just pick that up over time and the 60 things are prompts or do you literally go through all of them? We literally go through all of them. (16:57) Um but they do pick it up. you know, like five gears. I have four new hires. I have not explained five gears to them, but they’ve heard the language already. They’ve heard us in our meeting say, “Okay, we’re going to shift down into third gear.” Uh they’re already just picking it up by osmosis. Uh in about two weeks, I’ll be doing an official training on five gears. (17:18) Um all the fantastic though. I I’m going to hit this real quick because I think that’s the part a lot of people think to themselves process culture soft things you know hard to get ROI against it takes too much time but when you’re talking about that like when we talk about a resilient culture wouldn’t you say that you know language a common language is part of that’s that foundation like you said like it immediately tells me whether or not I get Yeah, that’s awesome. So, not only those visual tools, um, but (17:54) our mission, our vision, our values, uh, we talk about them. We have a a company meeting and we focus on a different value at every meeting. How have you seen this value played out? Um, so our values aren’t just something that are sitting up on a wall. Uh, we we try and live them out. (18:12) And what I really love is when we can get a Google review and one of our clients actually mentions a value, then we I know we’re doing a really good job. That’s amazing. Intentional language. Language. That’s a perfect and I we often talk about going from intuition to intent. Yeah. Right. (18:36) I mean, I I think most people want to do the right thing and they theoretically understand, but there are specific requirements to actually making it happen. So, I love I love your your focused intent. So, when did you start doing that? Right. I mean, like you’ve had, like you said, some of these employees for 20 plus years. When did you move? Uh was this part of stability like getting to that growth stage or was was this just always something that was innate to you? No, this is this was part of frustration is where it all came out. (19:03) Well, I think the most beautiful things come out, right? I have a I have a great operations manager. Um she is a classic integrator if you follow the EOS. I am that um that visionary and eight years ago it was kind of like we were butting heads a lot but what we knew is if we could just understand how to communicate with each other there’s no place we couldn’t take this company. So we were really intentional. (19:29) We we flew out actually flew down to Atlanta to go through a workshop for an entire year to understand how to communicate with each other and how to build kind of a resilient culture. And after her and I went through that, she really encouraged me to go out and start teaching this. (19:46) So teaching it to our clients, uh, partnering with chambers of commerces so we can get it out to more businesses. It’s been very intentional. It was birthed through just a lot of pain because we are really good at frustrating each other. Yeah. Yeah. Because you just work entirely different, right? Minds think entirely differently. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (20:09) And that’s, you know, that’s one of the things that we do in proxy is just thinking about like how do you pair the visionary and integrator in one team so that that way we can go essentially clone an executive like you, right? I mean, so if you’re if you’re thinking about that, when you did that with her, was that a pivotal business change? like did that uh did that really really affect the business immediately or was it one of those things that you saw that as a slow grow over time and things got better? I would say that pivot, you know, eight years ago is probably more of a slow growth (20:46) because we’re really intentional now. I think we have the ability to grow much faster. Yeah. Right now we’re both speaking the same language. uh she gets it as well as I do and she can Yeah. It’s going to be laid the foundation. The foundation is there. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. And so, uh what are the things that are on your leaders list right now as you’re thinking about scaling? Because I How many people listen to this that have been around for a while, they’ve got a good business, they’re pretty comfortable in that (21:18) business, and then all of a sudden they go for one reason or another, economy changes. uh I decide that I wanna I want to exit or I want to buy other companies or something happens. That’s where you guys are at. What’s on your leaders list? What’s the top things you’re thinking about right now that you want to get done? Well, the top things, you know, I’m that visionary. I love thinking about the future. (21:46) Uh my top thing right now is how is AI affecting my business and how is it affecting my my customers? That’s really the top thing that I’m thinking about and the way we’re addressing that, spending more time teaching my team on how to use AI tools. Okay? Because I want them to drive how we use AI. I don’t want to I don’t want to push it on them because it’s they’re an amazing team. (22:10) They’re the best ones to figure out how can we save time, save money, do things better. And in the end, I believe it’s, you know, my clients should be working with an agency that uses AI. It’s just it’s a tool. For sure. Yeah, it’s a requirement, right? So, I’m thinking about that. I’m also thinking about, you know, just making sure that we’re building the right culture for our team. (22:36) Hybrid is probably one of the hardest models I think to manage it that us versus them and how do we make sure everybody feels like their voice is heard, they’re a part of the team. Um, and I think that their soul is being being filled by what they’re doing here at Divid Image. Yeah. (22:57) You know, it’s funny you say that because you’re I’m sure when you first went through that shift and that change eight years ago that was, you know, laying hands, right? You were you you could get a hold of everybody and you could get in a room and you could make that change. How has that shifted? Like what are some of the biggest things that you’ve done differently to work with a hybrid staff? It’s been our intentionality with our meetings. So, there are some meetings that we have. (23:22) Um, what are some of the standing meetings? I’m just curious about that. Yeah. Okay. So, we have a a Monday and a Thursday standing meeting. Everybody comes to that meeting. It’s about a about a half hour long. And to tell you the truth, about five minutes of it is business and about 25 minutes turns into third gear time. (23:42) We also have a 90minute meeting once a month. We call it our RCM uh remarkable company meeting. We’ve had that that for probably 25 years we’ve been doing an RCM meeting and that goes through talking about our successes, celebrating our clients, celebrating our team, um looking at what’s coming up next is being being intentional with um looking to the looking to the past and looking to the future. (24:10) We also spend a lot of time just with communication. We use Slack, we use Zoom. Um I don’t know. We tend to use three different video channels I think. Whatever is most convenient for you from from Zoom to Google Meet to uh Slack Hangouts, but we are always talking with each other. Yeah. (24:35) And again, this comes back to intentionality, right? You know, everybody, the thing I kept hearing from people is uh well, you know, you can’t make this work without the water cooler chats. And I do agree that there’s value in the water cooler chats. They just take place differently today. So, you know, there is a spark around Slack that you start watching people engage, but you have to have people who are able to operate in that. (24:56) And then like one of the things we do is we have a we have a happy hour. Look, happy hours are fun and and and we have really funny interesting people. So when we shift into third gear like that is a fun time but you you know you got to think about that and you got to decide that that matters and and somebody has to think about how do you facilitate that and how do you make sure that people are engaged? What what role Steve does um bringing people together play in your organization? Like do you do that on a consistent basis? Is that like planned quarterly or is that certain (25:33) days of the week or how does that work? Well, I’ll tell you, food always brings people together. It’s key. And my new employees, so I have a new employee that started a month ago, and she really wanted to make sure that the two other new employees that started felt welcome. So, she’s organized uh lunchon lunchons. (25:57) Typically, it would be my wife who’s over our marketing team that that she loves organizing those lunchons, too. But it brings people in that would be working from home normally. It brings them into the office. We also find about once a quarter, so we do have people around the country. Uh once a quarter, we like to fly everybody in and get together for probably a longer a longer day, maybe a half a day where we’ll not we’ll not only have our RCM meeting, but we’ll take some we’ll do some team building. (26:22) We did a scavenger hunt uh a couple quarters ago where we broke up into four different teams and we drove around town doing a scavenger hunt. I love it. I can’t believe nobody got into a car accident, but it was it was some of the most fun I’ve ever had. Those are great. Those are great. Those are, you know, it’s funny because those kinds of activities again, intentional, thought through. I know you didn’t go, “Well, scavenger hunt would be fun. (26:50) ” I mean, like you probably went through like what are team activities? What are things where we naturally work together? When you did those, here’s a curveball. When you put those teams together, did you think about how you formed those teams? I’ll tell you the truth, I did not think about how we formed those teams, but I bet somebody did because I didn’t put it together because it’s so embedded in your culture, right? That mindset. (27:14) I think we had So, of the five voices, we probably tried to break break each team up to have each one of the voices in there. I will bet that’s true. I will bet that’s true. That’s that’s awesome. So, um, having done this for a long time, you clearly have committed like this is an important thing to you guys. Has, have you found one thing you’ll also hear people say is that’s an awful lot of time. (27:37) That’s an awful lot of investment in that. And so do you think your revenue per employee, whatever the key metric is that you use, do you do you find that it’s not taking away from your overall profitability? Like you still run the 85%, you know, uh, billable or how do how do you manage all that part? There’s a number of ways to look at that. (28:05) Um, but replacing employee is probably the most expensive metric. Got it. So yeah, our revenue per employee retention, ours is retention. Yeah, we could probably bump up our revenue employee 10%. Um, but I want to make sure we’re holding on to our team. Yeah, I also don’t drive our team to work 60 hours a week. (28:32) It’s typically that 40, maybe 45 on some weeks, but I want them to love their time here and love their time away from here. Man, again, intentionality, intentionality and commitment. That’s you, you have you have clearly invested in that. And I hear so many people talk about they give it lip service. Um, but this is obviously core to you. (28:58) And so, what do you say to an executive who goes, “Oh my god, I can’t invest that much, you know, in this. If if I were going to I I want to build a resilient culture. I’m not Steve Gasser, right? I cannot, you know, invest as much and it’s not my personal drive, but I do understand it’s important. What should they put on their leaders list after they finish listening to this? Like, what should they go and do immediately to start moving in the right direction? Brian, that’s a really good question. Thanks, man. I like that question. (29:30) Um, here’s where what I would recommend is culture starts from the top. Leaders leaders define culture. And if you’ve been running your organization for two years or you’ve been running your team for two years, the culture you have is it’s really a reflection of who you are. But with that, I I don’t think people don’t graduate from the school of self-awareness. (29:52) You are always learning more about yourself. So, I think, you know, learning more about yourself as a leader. What are some of your natural gifts and where are you minimizing your influence can be some of the best next steps for you to take because again leaders define culture. (30:10) If you want to create a culture that people want to be a part of um it’s going to be taking small consistent steps. I don’t think this it’s not going to be like a a big change overnight. I I think it can I think there can be because you know that kind of personal self-reflection I would I would say um to your point about understanding yourself one uh initiative that we often use is a personal user manual. Oh yeah, mapping out. (30:41) And if anybody wants to see one, let me know. I’ll send you mine. But it basically is a way for you to go through an introspective process to understand who you are, what your strengths and weaknesses are, but also communicate out to everyone. So the ability to say to somebody, listen, not only is this my, you know, five voices, is this my PI score? You can you can share all those things, but it also says, look, these are quirks about me. These are these are things that often are misunderstood and I want to explain it. And if you give that to (31:15) someone before they ever walk into a room to get to know you, you you immediately have a a shared understanding. Absolutely. So, I love that idea. Go do the self-reflection. Uh but I I do think that having some operational next step right if you recognize that you are not a culture driver and that’s not your strength it does start at the top and you have to have a commitment to it but to your example of you found somebody in the organization who’s like I’d love to do that. Yes. (31:52) How do you let them give them breathing space to be able to do it? So one thing we did in an agency, large agency, you know, we had offices all over the country, we put a culture lead in each one of those locations and they were responsible. They had a budget. (32:12) They, you know, thought about what was unique to that specific office and what they needed and everybody had, you know, while we did company things, we had independent office things that were going on at all times, too. And so that’s another way. It wasn’t the CEO who outlined all that. You just put the structure in place and gave the tools. That’s right. And they kind of become the coaches in those departments. (32:37) That’s right. Have you created a whole batch of folks that are the the five voices? I didn’t ask that before, but like how did you uh disseminate that past you? So it starts with my leadership team uh making sure they understand their voice, they understand the gifts that each each one of the voices has within the team. We’ve created what’s called kind of a liberation statement. (33:04) These liberation statements that’s it’s kind of what what fills their soul, what they really want um from the position, what they really and what they can really val offer to a team. I love it. Sounds very similar to uh to your process. Yeah, but I love a liberation statement. Liberation sounds right. That’s fantastic. Okay, good. (33:34) Um, so Steve, before I cut you loose, this has been fantastic. Uh, I I get why you call it a remarkable company meeting because uh you obviously are building that. So before we cut loose for other people who want to have an RCM uh and they want to have a great company, what are any parting thoughts uh that a a leader, a CEO can uh should take into account and keep on that leader list? Anything you want to share? I think you know what you celebrate is what you you keep creating within your culture. (34:12) So no matter what culture you have, um there are things that you can celebrate in that culture and the more you celebrate the things, the more you get that out of it. Yeah, man. I love it. It’s which wolf you feed. That’s fantastic. All right, we’re going to leave it with that. I Yeah, which do you feed? Yes, that’s great. Thank you so much, Steve. (34:29) This has been fantastic. Uh we’re going to put your information in the show notes. I hope people will reach out to you because you have a lot to offer. uh certainly from a leadership perspective, but of course the services you guys provide are amazing. So uh thanks for being a part of the leaders list. Thanks for having me on it, Brian.”